Really though, could we do this well on Kodachrome?    It's the Gold Line in East Los Angeles last May on Digital.  Hand held.

On May 12, 2011, at 1:04 AM, Dwight Long wrote:

>   Fred   I must admit that my knowledge of Anscochrome is anecdotal.  I ne=
> ver used the stuff but what I have been told by others that did is pretty g=
> rim.  It may have to do with under what conditions the slides were sto= red.
>  My early Ektachrome experience dates to 1955.  The slides I took = then
> have color shifted (red cast) but the information is still all there a= nd
> sothey can be color corrected.  The key is whether or not the info= rmation
> originally recorded on the film is still there, or in what quantiti= y it
> is.  There are three German chemical companies which are larger in sales th=
> an duPont.  They are: Hoescht, Badische, and Bayer (I think in that or=
> der).  duPont was fourth and ICI, before it started selling itself in =
> pieces (the sum of the pieces was worth more than the whole), was fifth.  
> Yes, the american Agfa/Ansco saga was a fascinating one.    I went digital
> in2000 so all my film personal knowledge is pre-2000.&= nbsp; You are
> obviously more up to date on that than I.  My last prefe= rred slide films
> were Fuji Astra and Agfachrome.  Good results with bo= th, with Agfa a bit
> warmer.   Dwight
> 
> May 12, 2011 02:49:18 AM, pittsburgh-railways@dement= ia.org wrote:
> 
> Actually,= Dwight, I have some old Anscocolor and Anscochrome that is better
> than the= Ektachrome E4 process from the early 1960s. And it didn't much
> matter who = processed it ... whether Kodak did or I did, that Ektachrome
> was$$#^&.= 
> 
> I wish, when I was in Germany, I had been using Agfa in 1959-1961,= inside
> ofthe "tried and true" yellow box. But we just didn't know, did we= ? I had
> seen one demonstration by an Agfa salesman about 1956 or 1957 for a= camera
> club in Reading PA, which was nothing more than a sales promotion s= how. I
> had also seen 8x10 Ektachrome transparencies made by the Armstrong C= ork
> company photographer to illustrate room displays to sell their linoleum= and
> floor tiles ... they had been shot within the previous six months to a= year
> and the colors simply jumped off the film. The photographer admitted = there
> was a noticeable degradation if you let the exposed film sit for a da= y or
> two and therefore he processed everything within an hour or two after = he
> clicked the shutter. He was also a man noted for being able to tale the =
> work crews to go ahead and tear the room down after he took the picture bec=
> ause "he knew he had it on film." He never made a mistake. So you know if a=
> nyone cou!
> ld have convinced us that Ektachrome was a great film, he cou= ld. I'm sure
> if you picked up those same 8x10 films today, the yellow and c= yan dyes
> havedisappeared over a half century of storage. But we didn't kno= w it
> then.
> 
> Agreed that once they got to the E-6 process, the dyes w= ere vast
> improvement. 
> 
> Interestingly, Fuji shut down their US lab. T= hey process everything in
> Kodak's E6 process. 
> 
> Agfa-Gevaert went bro= ke in 2005 and sold off the Agfa division. I
> understand they license a coup= le of films but I think they are only
> available in Europe. It is essentiall= y a digital business. The company was
> in Leverkusen, Germany in the 1990s a= nd I think then it was a subsidiary
> ofa much larger chemical company calle= d BAYER ... you know ... the same
> people who bring you aspirin. Bayer is so= rt of Germany's Dupont. 
> 
> I also have one roll of Anscochrome 120 tha= t I took in 1958 and processed
> the evening I took it. It faded but held up = a lot better than Ektachrome
> from the same period. Ansco, or General Analin= e and Film Corporation went
> under in the 1980s. By the way, there is a lot = of interesting history here
> because the US government took over Ansco in th= e 1940s because it was
> after1928, Agfa-Ansco. We didn't like German compan= ies in our midst in
> World War II. Wikipedia notes that apparently there was= US government
> ownership into the 1960s. 
> 
> A lot of the Kodacolor fro= m those years also faded badly. I remember the
> Vericolor process from the m= iddle 1970s. Gorgeous colors. It was a lower
> saturation material than Kodac= olor and looked much more natural. I
> probablytook and processed and printe= d about 20 rolls of it. Had some
> really great 8x10s. Of course the dyes in = the prints have faded over 40
> years. I quit using it when Kodak announced, = after it was on the market
> fora few months, that if you expected to be abl= e to make prints a year
> fromnow, you had better store your processed negat= ives in the deep freeze.
> Seems the Great Yellow Father up in Rochester had = done some accelerated
> fading tests and discovered they were selling crap. 
> The only color printing process I used in that period that held up w= as one
> by Ciba Giegy (or Ilford) called Cibachrome that was probably simila= r to
> Kodachrome. Very slow. Very contrasty. Very saturated. Used only for r=
> eversal prints. But those have not faded in 35 years. But pouring the used =
> chemistry down the sink wasn't good for the environment either. 
> 
> I g= uess we just have to admit that the best thing to come along since
> Kodachro= me has been digital. Frankly, I am astonished at the shadow detail
> in digit= al and its ability to produce good pictures after dark. I also
> lookat the = high definition digital stuff made with home camcorders today
> and realize t= hose things can produce images that are as good or better
> than70 mm theate= r equipment that was used for some specialty movies like
> Sound of Music and= they are in the hands of anyone today! 
> 
> 
> On May 11, 2011, at 10:= 07 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
> 
>> Fred Am I not correct that GH later r= eplaced the dual motors with a
>> single =3D one? Ektachrome's color s= hift can be corrected in Photo Shop. 
>> Anscoch=3D rome, whose image = gradually just wasted away, cannot. So be
>> thankful =3D that you hav= e Ektachrome. I did not use Agfachrome until the
>> 90s--goo=3D d stuf= f by then. Dwight
>> 
>> May 11, 2011 01:44:46 AM, pittsburgh-rai= lways@dement=3D ia.org wrote:
>> Better you we=3D re using Kodachrome = Bob. All my Ektachomes from the
> early
>> 1960s faded. That=3D E3 or E4= process was a dud. But the Agfachrome dyes
> from
>> 1960 held up very= =3D well. 
>> 
>> Scenicruisers.... buses with two side-by-side d= iesels. I had=3D official
>> contact prints at one time of Central Gre= yhound C-675 sent to me =3D from
>> Pontiac, Michigan ... they were th= e official General Motors "builders =3D
>> photographs" for the PD-450= 1 model. Difference between builders photos of
> b=3D
>> uses and those = of streetcars was, they took those buses out and found
> some=3D
>> ver= y pretty locations to photograph them. 
>> 
>> First time I saw a= Scenic=3D ruiser was on display in front of the
> terminalin
>> Parker= sburg, West Virgini=3D a. Probably Saturday the 3 of September,
> 1955.
> &g= t; (Perpetual calendars are gre=3D at!) In those days Parkersburg had
> servi= ce by
>> hound east and west on US 50 =3D to Cincinnati and St. Louis = and
> Baltimoreand
>> Washington (competing with th=3D e B&O), and = north to Pittsburgh and
> southto
>> Charleston and some local =3D runs= too. 
>> 
>> I remember a driver in Parkersburg telling me about= one o=3D f his friends
> who
>> had an early local run into Parkersburg= and back out in t=3D he evening.
> He
>> kept the hound in his own driv= eway. Well, one night his kid =3D took the
> bus
>> and filled it with o= ther kids to take advantage of the all you=3D stuff
> into
>> the vehicl= e rate at the local drive-in. I think the story ended=3D with,
>> "Aft= erthat he didn't keep it at home any longer." 
>> 
>> In those = =3D days the Greyhound fleet was mostly the 1951 PD-4103s, a lot
> of
>> = slant windo=3D w PD-4104s but once in a while you would still see those
> pr= ewar
>> Yellow Coac=3D hes (743s I think). I remember riding one of th= ose Yellows
> on a
>> Pittsburgh =3D - Philly schedule from York to Lanc= aster one day back in
> 1953
>> or1954, by t=3D hen probably 17 or 18 ye= ars old.
>> 
>> As I think about it now, the local =3D bus compan= y in Lancaster was
> running
>> late and middle 1930s ACFs in base ser= =3D vice at that time on some
> routes.
>> Bill Janssen used to refer to= the Wizzard=3D s of Hoboken who kept those
>> 40-year-old DC electric= coaches running on the =3D Erie-Lackawanna in the
>> early1970s. Well= , we had wizzards in Lancaster that=3D kept old ACFs and
>> ACF-Brills= running long after they should have expired t=3D oo. There was
> one
>> = 26-S ACF from 1942 still running in the 1960s on a weekda=3D y
> interplant>charter for RCA. One Saturday in 1962 when all the newer coach=3D
> e= s were out
>> on charters and they were running short of equipment, I = saw tha=3D t
> critter
>> sailing in the New Holland Pike on a scheduled= Ephrata run. I rem=3D ember
> my
>> thoughts when I saw it that day wer= e, "My God ... you could legall=3D y
> put
>> purple antique car license= plates on it." 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On = =3D May 10, 2011, at 9:11 PM, Bob Rathke wrote:
>> 
>>> 
> &g= t;> Dwight, >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 49 year old memor= ies! On my 1962 trip , t=3D he Greyhounds were
> Scenecruisers
>> which = had restrooms. They traveled on US 6=3D 6, and (where completed) on
>> = I-40.There were numerous rest stops at Greyhou=3D nd Post Houses.
> Westboun= d,
>> wegot into St. Louis around 4 am and had a coup=3D le of hours u= ntil our
>> connecting bus left for Los Angeles. I remember watch=3D i= ng St. Louis
> PCC's
>> running near the bus station, but it was still d= ark and=3D I didn't have
> a
>> tripod along. I had a 35mm camera, but t= hat was i n the da=3D ys of low
> ASA
>> Kodachrome 10 a nd 25. 
>> = >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bo=3D b 
>>> 
>> &g= t; 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- O= rig=3D inal Message ----- 
>>> From: "Dwight Long" >To: pittsbur= gh-railways@dementia.org 
>>> Cc: pittsburgh-railways=3D @dementia.= org 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:43:59 PM 
>>> Subj= =3D ect: [PRCo] Re: Troop trains 
>>> 
>>> Bob On my trip t= o Rolla I ha=3D d spent the day riding the IT suburban 
>>> service= =3D3D and fotting SLPS=3D before heading west to Rolla. The Dog
> onwhich> I 
>>> ro=3D3D de had no =3D restroom--it was an early versio= n of the Highway
> Traveler
>> 
>>> series--=3D and I well remem= ber the rest stop on my trip. It was at a
> p=3D3D
>> lace 
>>> = =3D ; called "The Diamond," or something close to that and I think it
> =3D3D= 
>> was o=3D n 
>>> theold Rt.66. I was in desperate need of i= t, at any rate, hav=3D3D=3D
> ingbeen 
>>> lulled into a belief that= the bus would have a restroom =3D by virtue
> =3D3D of
>> the 
>> &= gt; fact that the one I rode into STL DID have su=3D ch a facility! And
> yes= , that
>> 
>>> is the preferred pronunciation of Rol=3D la! Dw= ight 
>>> 
>>> May 10, 2011 04:20:13 AM, pittsburgh-railway= s@=3D dement=3D3D ia.org
> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> I remembe=3D3D r = stopping at the Po=3D st House in Rolla (RAWL-Luh) on a
> 
>>> cross-= country=3D3DC3=3D3D82&n=3D3D=3D bsp;Greyhound trip in 1962. 
>> &gt= ; 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob 
>> &g=3D t; 
>> = >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Mes= sage ----=3D - 
>>> From: "Herb Brannon" To: pittsburgh-railways@de= mentia.org 
>> &g=3D t; Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 9:46:=3D3D 25 PM= 
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Tr=3D oop trains 
>>> 
>> &gt= ; I haven't heard that tow=3D3D ns name mentioned =3D in quite a few
> years.= 1957
>> was 
>>> almost a decade before=3D3D my time t=3D her= e but I doubt if it changed
> very
>> much. 
>>> On Mon, May 9, = 2011=3D3D a=3D t 21:02, Dwight Long wrote: 
>>> 
>>>> = =3D3DC3=3D3D82&n=3D3D bsp; =3D =3D3DC3=3D3D82 =3D3DC3=3D3D82 Herb
> =3D3D=C3=3D3D82 Back in 1957
>> Iwas returni=3D3D ng 
>> =3D >east f= rom Rolla, Mo., on the 
>>>> Frisco's loc=3D3D3D al passeng=3D e= r train=3D3D , and we went into the
> hole at
>> least 
>>> once= , 
>>>> =3D ; and I think tw=3D3D3D ice, =3D3D for a very long t= roop train.
> =3D3DC3=3D3D82
>> I le=3D arned 
>>> laterthat it = 
>>>> w=3D3D as headed =3D3D3D to Ft. Leonar=3D d Wood. =3D3DC3= =3D3D82 Dwight
> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ma=3D3D y 9, 2011 05:29:1= =3D 7 PM, pittsburgh-railways@dementi=3D3D3D
> a.org
>> wrote: 
>> &= gt;> =3D3D In the=3D Summer=3D3D3D of 1964 I had a "seasonal" job with
> t=he City of
>> Akron, 
>>> =3D ;> Street 
>>>> &a= mp;Hig=3D3D3D hway Dept, as a laborer on a McAdam=3D pavi=3D3D ng
> crew. We = had a
>> three 
>>> day 
>>>> job,=3D3D3D in mid=3D= -August, on a city stree=3D3D t which ran along
> side the
>> main 
> = >>>ea=3D st-westrailroad tracks. These tr=3D3D acks served the Ei=
> re-Lackawanna, 
>> &g=3D t;> Baltimore 
>>>> &= =3D3D3D Ohio =3D3D 
>>>> and the Penn=3D sylvania railroads. Eve= ry day we worked on that
> street=3D3D
>> =3D3D3D we 
>>> =3D sa= w 
>>>> troop train after troop train headed westbound. All th= =3D3D=3D e trains
>> us=3D3D3Ded 
>>> the 
>>>> 193= 0s Pullman cars you speak=3D about. Just a f=3D3D ew months later in
> &gt= ; Ap=3D3D3Dril, 
>>> 
>>>> 1=3D 965 
>>>> I >>>departed, l=3D3D ike your brother, on a TWA f=3D light head= ed for
> BCT =3D3D3D
>> andAIT, 
>>> as a 
>>>> =3D3D= Combat E=3D ngineer, at Ft Leonard Wood, MO. 
>>>> 
>>> = >
>>>>> &g=3D3D t; On=3D3D3D Sun, May 8, 2011 at 22:5= 2, Bob Rathke wrote: >>>
>>>> =3D3D ; >A couple of f= ollow-ups, Fred: 
>>> =3D >>
>>>>> 
>>> = >&g=3D3D t; 
>>>>> =3D3D3D =3D - In March, 1963 I too= k my brother to Greater
> Pittsburg=3D3D h
>> Airport 
>> &g=3D= t; where 
>>>> he>boarded a TWA Constellation for his induct= io=3D3D=3D n in the Army
> atFt.
>> Kn=3D3D3D 
>>> ox. 
>> = >>>Attached is a p=3D hoto of my broth=3D3D er about to enter the= door,
>> look=3D3D3Ding 
>>> back=3D 
>>>>> tow= ard the camera=3D3D . 
>>>>> 
>>>>> =3D 
> &gt= ;>>> 
>>>>> By 1964=3D3D3D -67, th=3D3D e Defense De= partm=3D ent was sending a
> greater
>> number of 
>>>>> P= ittsbu=3D3D =3D3D3D rgh i=3D nductees to basic training on trains
> fromthe = PRR
>> and 
>>> P&LE >=3D ;>=3D3D3D stations. I took= photos of the 1930's Pullman cars
> kept
>> inth=3D3D=3D 
>>> o= se 
>>>> stations>for use on the inductee trains. 
>> = =3D >>>
>>> =3D3D >>
>>>>> 
>> &gt= ;>> - L=3D3D=3D 3D ast Fall, my uncle told me abou=3D3D t his rail tr=
> ip to basic
>> training >in 
>>>> 1942> (previously, = he had =3D3D never talked about h=3D is WWII
> experiences).
>> His 
> = >>>dad=3D3D3D 
>>>> 
>>> =3D3D &=3D gt;&gt= ;accompanied him to the P&LE station that day where he
> boarded =3D
> &= gt; =3D3D =3D3D3D a 
>>> B&O 
>>>> train 
>> &gt= ;> to 
>>>> =3D ;> Washington, D.C., and=3D3D then on to a= n Army base in=3D3D3D the
> South.
>> H=3D he said 
>>> his 
> = >>>>parents=3D3D (my grandparents) didn't k=3D now that=3D3D3D= he
> enlistedin the
>> Army - 
>>> they 
>>> &=3D3= D gt;=3D >always thought that he had been dra=3D3D3D fted. 
>>> &= gt;> 
>> &g=3D t;> =3D3D >
>>>>> 
>> &g= t;>> Last Fall he talked freel=3D y about his =3D3D3D e=3D3D xperienc=
> es in the U.S.
>> and 
>>> Pacific 
>>> =3D >>19= 42-45, and I furiously to=3D3D ok n=3D3D3D otes on everything he
> sai=3D d. = 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> &g=3D3D t; >>>=3D >Bob 
>>>>> 
>>>> =3D3D3D &= gt;
>>>>> 
>>> =3D >=3D3D >
>>>>> = 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> &g=3D t;> >>>>=3D3D 
>>>>> 
>>>>> =3D3D3D = ; 
>> &=3D gt;>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> = =3D3D 
>>>>> 
>>> =3D >>----- Original Message = ----- 
>>>> &=3D3D3D g=3D3D t; From:=3D "Fred Schneider" >>>>To: pittsburgh=3D3D3D
> -railways@dementia=3D =3D3D .org >>>>Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2011 10:40:38 AM 
>>>> = =3D ;> =3D3D3D ; =3D3D Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pennsylvania RR Heritage
> Pass= enger
>> Tr=3D ain 
>>>>> =3D3D 
>>>> &= =3D3D3D gt; Back on October 8th, 1=3D 958, I entered the army. The
> lo=3D3D = cal 
>>> recruiter 
>>>> (yes=3D =3D3D3D , 
>>> &= gt;> guys, RA stood for ragged ass=3D3D ) gave me a ticke=3D t to
> Harris= burg on
>> =3D3D3D the 
>>> 
>>>> Pennsy. 
>> &= gt;>> =3D M=3D3D y parents were on the station platform in Lancaster =
> to=3D3D3D say
>> good-=3D bye. 
>>>>> And dad had one la= st picture of the train disappeari=3D =3D3D3D ng
> westw=3D3D
>> ith on= e 
>>> of 
>>>>> those Pennsy busine=3D ss cars on th= e rear end of n=3D3D3D =3D3D umber
> 25. 
>>>>> 
>>> &a= mp;g=3D t;> That was one hellish long day. Hours o=3D3D f
> processin=3D3D= 3D g and
>> fin=3D ally a bus 
>>> to 
>>>>> Phi= ladelphia and another=3D3D bus to =3D Fort Dix. An=3D3D3D d then
> standing i= n
>> 
>>> formation 
>>>> for >>=3D3D >an = hour. Finally some a-hole serge=3D3D3D ant comes out
> of=3D a
>> buildi= ng and s=3D3D 
>>> ays, 
>>>>> "Oh, you guys still he= r=3D e. Wel=3D3D3D l maybe we do something.=3D3D
> " And he
>> sent 
> = >>usto 
>>> =3D ;>> dinner at 11 PM for wha=3D3D3D t w= as left over=3D3D in the
> reception =3D
>> center. Then 
>>> to= 
>>>>> bed at 1 AM. Then =3D3D3D they w=3D3D=3D oke us up ag= ain at 4 a.m. to
> tell us
>> wewere 
>>> in 
>>>> &gt= ; =3D the army now.=3D3D =3D3D3D 
>>>>> 
>>>>> = Thanks Bob, for th=3D e memories. 
>>>>> =3D3D 
>>> &g= t;> 
>>>>> -- A=3D3D3=3D D ttached file removed by Ecartis= and put =3D3D at URL
> below -- 
>>>> &=3D gt; -- Type: im=3D= 3D3D age/gif 
>>>>> -- Size: 1=3D3D 88k (192970 byt=3D es) >>>>-- URL : 
>>>>> http:=3D3D3D 
>>> &= gt; // =3D =3D3D 
>>>> lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railw= ays/TWAConstJackS=3D
> tairs63.=3D3D 
>>> jpg.gif=3D3D3D 
>>> = >
>>>>> 
>>>> =3D ;> 
>>>>>>>>> =3D3D 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> &= =3D gt;> -- 
>>>> Herb Brannon 
>>>> In Cuyah=3D3D= 3D o=3D3D ga Val=3D ley National Park 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> &=3D gt;> 
>>> &= g=3D3D t; 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Herb B=3D = rannon 
>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park 
>>> 
>> &= gt; 
>>> =3D 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =3D 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>